Trouble Shooting Fleck 9000 Valve

 Determining if the Fleck 9000 Valve is functioning involves several steps.
 Checking the Meter Operation is the first step.
 See:
 Meter Cover ( 14038 ) and how to Check Directions plus Video
 
 
If the meter is counting your water usage, it should be regenerating and 
alternating tanks on a regular basis.
 If the meter is counting down to zero, but the valve is not regenerating, it 
could be one of several things.
 1 ) Micro-switch that "starts" the timer motor, or the timer motor does not 
start at all. Replacing the micro-switch or the motor would solve this.
 You can "see" the timer motor running in the back of the motor, when it has 
been "started" by the tripping of the micro-switch.
 This is what the program wheel on the front normally does ( when it counts 
down to zero ), or when you manually advance the control knob on the front.
 2 ) The Drive Motor may be bad, and not turning the main ( middle gear ) to 
move the Piston assemblies
 3 ) The one or more of the drive gears may be broken.
 4 ) The Valve could be "stuck" because the 2 main pistons, and seals need to 
be replaced. A stuck valve can also damage the middle drive gear.
 See:
 9000 or 9100 Rebuild Kit Pistons and Seals
 
Diagrams of the Fleck 9000 Valve and a list of common replacement parts can 
be found here,
 See:
 9000,9100 Parts and Diagrams
 

Distributor Failure in Bottom of Resin Tank

A customer has had 2 distributor failures within a relatively short time.
This time he thinks he may have lost the majority of his resin.
Can you please shed some light on possible causes for distributors to fail.
I'd like to make sure his third one lasts longer.

* Here is what I know will effect distributor life.
1 ) Too much water pressure ( over 80 psi ).
2 ) Not backwashing ( regenerating ) often enough. System should regenerate
at least once every 7 days.
I've run into "metered" or "demand" systems with just one or two people and
it takes them 2 - 3 weeks to "require" a regeneration.
This is too long for the resins to be "packed" down and not "fluffed up".
3 ) Highly Chlorinated water can break the resins down into small fragments.
These fragments get stuck in the fine slots of the bottom distributor. This
results in there being less "holes" for the water to flow through, thus
causing the pressure through the remaining holes or slots to become very
high. Eventually the pressure of the water becomes too high and the plastic
gives way. Then the larger ( normal size ) resins can get into the pipes.
4 ) Too high of flow rates can be a problem. Residential size softeners (
tank diameters between 8 - 10 inches ) are made for flow rates of less than
8 gpm. And a normal home will peak around 5 - 6 gpm while filling the
laundry tub, or the bath tub. If the demand it greater than this, the system
needs to have a larger tank diameter, and a gravel under bedding should be
used.

RESET Autotrol 460 Timer Regenerating EVERY NIGHT

TOTAL 460 TIMER PROGRAM RESET
* 1. Record your Hardness and Capacity settings
* 2. Disconnect power
* 3. Jumper both pins 'A' and 'B'
* 4. Reconnect power for at least 10 seconds
* 5. Disconnect Power
* 6. Remove Jumpers and return them to 'time' and 'spare'
* 7. Reconnect power and restore your hardness and capacity settings
* Result is # days since regeneration and gallons used are '0'
* Average daily usage is hex 64 or decimal 100 gallons
The REASON you would RESET your timer is IF the unit is Regenerating EVERY NIGHT. This happens when the "program" is "averaging" your daily use based on the last 30 days, and you had an unusually HIGH USAGE day during that period. A Reset should solve this problem. If not, it may be time to replace the Timer Assembly.

What Brine ( Salt ) Setting Amount to Use?

Question: Does the adjustment for the salt dosage need to be adjusted based
on the hardness of the water?
I haven't changed it from where it was set but didn't know if I needed too.
****
The amount of salt needed is mostly based on the amount of resins being
recharged.
3/4 cu.ft. resin = 6 - 9 lbs.
1 cu.ft. resin = 8 - 10 lbs.
1.5 cu.ft resin = 12 - 15 lbs.

Typically,
9 lbs for 8 - 9 inch tanks,
and 12 lbs. of 10" tanks is average.
If there is a lot of iron ( over 2 ppm )
or if the water is really hard ( over 25 grains ),
then 2 - 4 lbs. extra should be used.

So, typically a residential system will use 6 - 12 lbs of salt per regeneration at least once a week. Very hard water, or water high in iron, may require regenerating every 2 or 3 days. The result is you will be using at least 30 - 40 lbs. of salt, and more common you will be using 60 - 100 lbs. of salt per month. Simply multiply the pounds of salt per regeneration times the number of regenerations in a month to calculate your monthly average usage.

P.S. If you run out of Salt, don't expect to have soft water after a few days. And it may take more than one regeneration to get the water feeling soft again once you've added salt.
I recommend keeping the salt level above the water level in your Brine Tank.
When you start seeing the water level ( normally between 6 - 12 inches ) then it's time to think about adding more salt ( 40 - 120 lbs. ).

Replacing Program Wheel on Fleck 5600 Valve - Label comment

Andrew,
I appreciate the information on replacing the program wheel, but I would
suggest that you call the labels thin decorative covers on the front control
knob and program wheel not labels. They do not label anything.
Kay

Replacing Program Wheel on Fleck 5600 Valve

1 ) Remove label on the front control knob.

2 ) Remove screw under label.

3 ) Pull front knob, and 24 hour wheel off and out of the way.

4 ) Remove label on old program wheel

5 ) Remove screw that holds it in place.

6 ) Remove program wheel, and install new one.

7 ) Re-assemble in reverse of disassembly.

 

Be sure to SET your White Dot same as the old one ( or where ever you have determined the correct gallon set should be ). See:
http://softenerparts.zoovy.com/category/6600.fleck_5600_service_hints.checking_meter__setting

Brine Draw Failure in Sears, GE Smart Water, North Star Systems

Here is what causes suction failure in order of importance and frequency:

1 ) Gasket under Nozzle Venturi is worn, cracked, or "dried out".
2 ) Seal Kit is failing at some critical area, and not sealing.
3 ) Rotor Disc is no longer smooth and even, resulting in lack of seal
during critical valve functions.

So, the best recommendation is to replace all 3 parts, unless you feel very
confident of the condition of one or more of the parts and there fore don't need replacing ( yet ).

See:
http://www.softenerparts.com/Seal_Kit_7129716_7092163_7134224_WS35X10005_p/7129716.htm

*** Suction FAILURE Can Be Related To:
1 ) Gasket under Venturi ( sometimes the Venturi too ).
2 ) Seal Kit orings ( any leakage internally effects suction )
3 ) Rotor Disc ( any scratches or uneven wear effects suction )
4 ) Drain flow ( blockage of Drain Flow Plug or Drain hose effects suction... or Drain hose running UP HILL )
5 ) Bottom Flow Plug in the Nozzle Venturi Assembly, if closing up ( should be 0.3" I.D. hole )
6 ) Poor seal of the Nozzle Venturi Assembly to the Valve body ( oring pair 7170319 ).

**** Anything else would be a clogged screen ( two in Nozzle Venturi and one at bottom of Brine Float Assembly )

*** And last but not least, if you have being using Pellet Salt for many years, it could be clogging the bottom of your brine well, and limiting flow at the bottom of the salt tank.
Pellet salt leaves a hard undissolvable mush of 1 - 3 inches per year of normal use. And eventually will clog the flow through the brine well at the bottom of the salt tank area.

Customers Asked Questions and Answers

Brine Refill after Autotrol 155 or 255 repair

I just order and received an output connector for an Autotrol timer. Great service! 
I replaced the output connector last night and I am not sure that the brine actually was pulled out of the tank. I had to dispose of the contents of the brine tank because it had a lot of dark particles in it. I assume this happened when the part broke and valves where opened out of sync. 
So I replaced the salt and added about 4 gallons of water to the brine tank. I set the manual regeneration on and observed most of the cycle. When it got to the first brine cycle, I did not see any water being pulled from the brine tank. How do I know that brine is being pulled from the tank? 
At one point the ball in the clear cup was pulled to the bottom of the cup but I did not see any water flow on top of it. Late in the cycle I did see brine water in the clear cup, with the ball at the top of the cup, and it appeared to be filling the brine tank. 
How do I know the system is working correctly? 
Thanks, 
Greg L.

ANSWER:

Dear Greg, 
The system should work the next time it regenerates. It did not work when you first did it because there would have been air in the brine line tubing from your cleaning of the brine tank. When ever you disconnect the brine tubing or anything that causes the water to come out of the air check or tubing, you MUST put the valve in brine refill for about 15 seconds ( after you have everything reconnected ) to purge any air from the air check and the tubing. 
Your system "air checked" too soon because of the air in the tubing. But as I said, it should be okay NOW. You can see the water being pulled into the valve through the air check ( it takes 5 - 15 minutes to empty the brine tank ) and watch the water level drop in the brine tank, when the system is working correctly. 

Autotrol 155 or 255 - How to Tell Which You Have

Above is the 155 Valve Body Diagram
Below is the newer 255 Valve Body Diagram
Click on to ENLARGE VIEW

How do I know if I have an Autotrol 155 ( 1550-TC ) or a model 255 Valve?

1. The Series 155 was replaced by the Series 255 late 1995 ( early 1996 ). An easy way to tell the difference is, the brine control ( salt dial ) is located on the front ( just beneath the timer housing ) on the 155 and it has been relocated to the right side ( looking from the front ) on the 255.

Another noticeable difference is the Injector Cap, and Injector Screen/Cap are the size of a quarter on the newer 255. They are about the size of a dime on the older model 155.

Note: The Brine Control and the Backwash Flow Control plugs are identical in size on both the 155 and the 255. However, another difference is the location of the Backwash Flow Control Plug ( 25F )is on the right hand side ( looking from the front ) on the 155 and has been moved to the left side on the 255.

Autotrol Backwash Plug Number

How can I tell what number of backwash plug I need?

1 . Your existing Backwash Plug should have a small number on it. The number matches the diameter ( in inches ) of your resin tank. The most common is 9 ( for 9" x 48" tanks ). Thus the part number would be 25F-9.

Can I replace just the control valve head and reuse my resin tank, and salt tank?

1. Yes. See < How to Replace Your Old Valve > 

Will a Water Softener make the water safe to drink?

Will a Water Softener make my water safe to drink?

1. No. Your water must be safe to drink before you condition the water with a softener. If you are concerned about the safety of your drinking water, contact your local health department about getting a bacteria test, or full lab analysis on your water.

Common Water Problems

What types of water problems are common?

Hardness in your water.
Hardness is dissolved rock and minerals like calcium and magnesium. Water hardness causes scale build-up in your pipes, washing machine, automatic dishwasher and hot water heater. Using hard water in your home can cost you up to 26% more in electrical bills, and up to 80% more in soaps and cleansing products. Not to mention the costly replacement of plumbing, water using appliances (ice makers), dishes and clothing. Try to bath or shower in hard water and it can leave your skin feeling dry and itchy, and your hair feeling dry and like straw.>
Iron and Rust in your water.
Iron and rust in your water is picked up from underground sources as rain water fitters down through the ground on its way to our aquifers. Iron and rust makes your water taste and smell metallic. It will stain your toilets rusty red, etch your china, corrode your washing machine and plug your pipes. it can ruin your hot water heater in less than a year, and will stain rusty red. Try and take a bath or shower and your skin feels dirty even after you have used tons of soap.
Tannic Acid in your water.
Tannic adds stain and discolor your water and cause it to look yellow and even green in some cases. Tannic acids are caused by decaying organic matter on the grounds surface that is leached into the ground aquifers via rain and runoff. Tannic acid in your water can stain clothing, appliances, and build up in your plumbing system over a short period of time.
Sulfur (Hydrogen Sulfide) in your water.
Hydrogen sulfide is a gas that causes an obnoxious rotten egg odor in your water. Hydrogen sulfide is caused by rotting and decaying organic matter in the underground aquifer. Hydrogen sulfide will ruin your silverware, plug your appliances, and generally stink up your whole house.
Chlorine in your water.
If your water comes from a public water supply, it probably has chlorine in it. The water utilities add chlorine to the water for disinfection purposes. Chlorine in your water can cause a swimming pool odor, and can be less than desirable to bath in, cook with, or drink. It is well documented that when you add chlorine to water containing organic matter (tannic add) it can form carcinogenic chemicals like Trihalomethanes. Some experts now believe that even the inhalation of these vapors may not be healthy. Public water supplies from surface water plants ( lakes, reservoirs ) can also contain deadly Cryptosporidium < Click for more information. Chlorine can also destroy the rubber components in a water softener ( and your plumbing ). Sodium Chloride (Salt) in your water.
Sodium chloride (salt) occurs naturally in our ground water and some water systems even add more. Salt is an essential element of life but most experts agree that we probably get more than enough in our diet and do not need more in our drinking and cooking water. if your on a salt free or salt restricted diet, you should not have any additional salt in your water.
Contamination in your water.
Contamination can be caused by many things. Some of the more common causes are improperly functioning septic tanks, leaking underground storage tanks, the use of fertilizers, the use of pesticides, animal waste, bacteria, virus, improperly disposed chemicals, organic and inorganic chemicals. The United States Environmental Protection Agency has established a list of both Primary and Secondary Drinking Water Standards and the WQA has a list of recognized treatment methods for meeting those standards.

Also see Common Water Problems

Reverse Osmosis How it works and common problems

What about Reverse Osmosis?

1. See How Reverse Osmosis Works

2. See Common R.O. Problems

How a water softener actually works

How does my water softener actually work?

1. See Water Softener Basics

Why does soft water feel slimy or slick in the shower?

1. Water that has been conditioned by a water softener allows soap to dissolve more completely than in hard water. It is common for first time users of soft water to have a slimy experience in the shower. This is due to using more soap than is necessary. The amount of soap needed to lather up is very small in soft water. This is one of the benefits of soft water ( less soap is needed in the bathing, laundry, and household cleaning ). Also, the pores of your skin will no longer be clogged by the undissolved soap. Once a person has adjusted their soap usage and is used to the smooth clean feeling achieved by bathing in soft water, they will have a negative "ruff" feeling, if they bath in hard water again.

Odor in water

I have a Water Softener, but I still have odor in my water. Why is that?

1. Water softeners do not remove most taste and odor problems ( they can remove the metallic taste of iron in water ).

2. Odors from hydrogen sulfide ( "rotten egg smell" ) in wells or "bleach" smell in chlorine treated water, require an activated carbon filter to be used in conjunction with the water softener. E-mail us for advice on your situation.

3. Sometimes odor in the hot water only, is caused by the self sacrificing rod installed in your hot water heater. Removal of this rod by your plumber could solve this problem.

Iron removal with water softener

Will a Water Softener remove the iron from my water?

1. Yes, if the iron is still in solution ( it has not been oxidized ). How much it can remove depends on the size resin tank of your softener. The more iron in the water, the larger the resin tank needs to be to remove all the iron. E-mail us for advice on your situation.

I have a working Water Softener, but I am still getting Iron Staining. Why is that?

There are several things that could cause you to still be getting staining. 
1) It is critical that your system never run empty of salt. 
2) It is important that the time of day be kept correct and that no one uses water between 2 a.m. - 3 a.m. when the system is regenerating. While the system is in regeneration, any water used would be unconditioned ( coming straight from the well ).
3) In high iron situations it is usually necessary to include a cleaner with the salt. Iron Out ( about 1/4 cup with each 80 lbs of Salt ) is commonly used. So is Tan-X ( Citric Acid, also 1/4 lbs per 80 lbs. ). A cup or two of Chlorine Bleach can be used, if your softener DOES NOT have "white resins" installed for Tannic Acid Color removal ( this is a special layer of resins sometimes added to the regular resin inside your resin tank ).
4) It could be your resin tank is too small to handle all the iron.
A. What size is the resin tank?
B. What is the level of Iron and Hardness of the water?

5) It could be you are not regenerating often enough, or using enough salt per regeneration.
A. How often does your softener regenerate?
B. How many people are using the water?
C. How much salt are you using per month?

6) On rare occasions the iron could be coming from just the hot water tank. I've seen a few old ones ( over 20 years old ) rusting out on the inside, thus putting iron back into the water. This is also true in older mobile homes ( again over 20 years old ) that used galvanized plumbing under the trailer.

Above are the common reasons a working water softener might still be allowing you to get staining. For additional help and recommendations, please send the answers to the above questions.

Salt usage in water softener

How much salt should my softener be using?

1. The average is 80 lbs. per month, BUT can vary depending upon the type of valve used and the quality of water being treated.

2. Metered valves will tend to use less salt than a non metered unit ( i.e. one set to regenerate every so many days with no regards for actual water used ).

3. An average softener with 1 cu. ft. of resins ( 32,000 grain, 9" x 48" tank ) should use about 8 lbs. per regeneration to achieve a economical 24,000 grain capacity ( hardness in grains divided into grains of capacity results in the gallons of water that can be treated before resins is exhausted ).

I see ads for "No Salt" needed water conditioners. 
How do they work without using salt?

1. Many dealers will advertise a no salt water conditioner. Any brand of water conditioner can be operated without using salt. This is done by using a salt substitute, potassium chloride. It generally cost twice as much as regular salt ( sodium chloride ), and can be difficult to find in some areas. Also, it is recommend to increase the salt setting on your control valve by about 10 % , when using a salt substitute.

2. Some companies offer catalytic filters and/or magnetic devices to soften your water that do not use salt, or anything else to regenerate their product. Buyer beware! If a technology had been developed that could replace a resin based water conditioner, then everyone would be selling it. I know I would. Those salt bags are heavy :)

Low Pressure through softener resin tank

When do the resins in the softener tank need to be changed?

1. The average water softener will not need it's resins replaced in it's life time ( 20 + years ).

2. Water softening resins need to be replaced if the unit has developed a high level of bacteria that does not respond to a cleaning with chlorine. Odors from units left in a not working mode with no water flowing through them for months at a time can develop this problem. Also, units in direct sunlight ( Florida ) can develop a layer of algae that requires complete resin replacement.

3. An excessive amount of sand in resin tank, due to a well starting to collapse, can necessitate resin replacement.
For more Info:
Check out the Resin Replacement Guide

Can the softener cause pressure loss, if so what do I look for, and what do I need to fix it? 

Yes, a softener can cause pressure loss in the home due to resistance from the resin bed caused by one of the following.
1. On well water, this is usually due to fine sand coming from the well.
 2. On softeners installed in the open sunlight ( mostly in Florida ), a layer of algae can grow and thick pieces of this growth clog the lower distributor tube screen when they start peeling off the inside of the resin tank.
 3. On chlorinated water supplies, sand can get into the tank from new construction or work on water lines in the area. All of these situations are rare. 
4. The most common cause of pressure loss occurs on chlorinated water. 
The resins can be damaged by high chlorine levels and turn to mush. This has the same effect as having fine sand at the bottom of the resin tank. Chlorine can DESTROY Resins in as little as 5 years ( I'm seeing 5 - 10 years average )

The solution for all of the above problems is to dump the resin tank, clean and rebed with new resins. One cubic foot of softening resins is enough to properly fill the average residential softener. We can calculate the amount for you, if you provide exact resin tank dimensions. 

The second most common reason for pressure loss occurs with Autotrol control valves. 
The flapper valve discs swell up when used on chlorinated water. This causes the holes in the valve to become block, resulting in pressure loss at high flow rates.

The solution for this problem is to replace the valve discs set and the backwash flow control ball ( this part also swells up ). See Autotrol Parts Page

Softener does not remove the water from salt tank when it regenerates. What should you check?

1. Make sure all the fittings are tight. Also check the tubing going to the salt tank for small cracks. Any air leak will cause the valve to not draw the water out during the regeneration cycle.

2. Make sure the drain line is not clogged or restricted. This also can cause the valves normal suction to fail.

3. Check the injector and injector screen for debris or clogging.

4. On Autotrol valves, check that the two large main valves ( # 2 and # 3 ) are fully closed during the Brine Rinse ( Draw ) cycle. If they fail to close, it results in no suction. In fact it will result in the valve attempting to fill the salt tank during the time it should be removing the salt water. This could be caused by something near the metal "tab" blocking the "tab" from standing straight up ( closing the rubber valve underneath, inside ), OR you could have something inside preventing full closure. On older valves, this can be caused by chlorine damage to the rubber valve discs. See the Rebuild guides on our Do It Yourself ( DIY ) Repairs page for more about the Valve Discs functions and how to replace them. For Piston Assembly or Rotor Disc Valves, the problem can be caused by internal leaks due to wear or damaged Pistons, Rotor, and especially the Seals they contact with in the control valve. Replacement guides for common types will be found on our DIY repairs page.

5. If your Resin Tank is INSIDE the Brine Tank ( one piece "cabinet" design popular in Europe and the U.S.A. ), you may have a leak in the RESIN TANK. Try unplugging the electric, so the Valve can NOT regenerate, and see if the water level continues to Rise from one day to the next.

6. Also check for leaking of the Brine Valve, which should be closed after the Brine Refill is completed. You can disconnect the Brine tubing at the Control Valve end to make sure the Valve is not sending any water to the Brine Tank area ( this could occur if the # 1 Valve Disc ( on Autotrol Valves ) or Brine Piston Assembly ( on Fleck Valves ) or Internal Seal leak ( on Rotor Disc type valves ) is being held open by debris of some kind or is very worn due to age.